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The Smart Take:
Listen as Kevin completes the podcast series discussing the book What Retirees Want (WRW) by world-famous “Age Wave” expert Ken Dychtwald, Ph.D.
Should you stay or should you go…
While many Boomers intend to not move but age in place, an increasing amount are making a change.
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The Host:
Kevin Kroskey – About – Contact
Intro:
Stay? Go? Don’t know? Where will you call home in retirement? Learn why many more boomers are choosing to go and where they’re going to in order to improve retirement satisfaction. That and more on today’s Retire Smarter Show.
Walter Storholt:
It’s another edition of Retire Smarter. Walter Storholt here with you alongside Kevin Kroskey, President, Wealth Advisor at True Wealth Design. Find us online at truewealthdesign.com. Kevin, good to be with you once again. Looking forward to continuing our series on what retirees want. Today, we’re talking about what they want in a home. But before all of that, what’s going on in your world?
Kevin Kroskey:
Yeah, everything’s great. A little bit of market volatility that we’re experiencing right now, which is normal, even though we really haven’t had it for a while. Maybe a brief PSA. Just I think it’s good to remember that this volatility, or the more wild ups and downs, tends to be it’s a feature, not necessarily a bug of markets. It’s the same reason why you can expect outsized returns from stocks compared to safer assets, less volatile assets like bonds.
Kevin Kroskey:
Nobody really likes the downside volatile. We don’t mind it when stocks go to the upside much.
Walter Storholt:
Volatility is great when it’s up.
Kevin Kroskey:
Yeah. It depends on the direction. But nonetheless, this is nothing abnormal. I’m not making a prediction or anything here, but again, volatility, it does happen. It’s just it hasn’t happened for quite some time. Literally for the last decade really since 2000, after the 2009 financial crisis, the market has been quite, quite calm more than what has been normal.
Kevin Kroskey:
Just keep in mind a 5% decline occurs about three times a year. A 10% decline, which is pretty much on par with what we reached so far year to date, occurs about once a year, and a 20% decline occurs about once every six years. We got close a couple times, certainly, when the world shut down in March of ’20, we got all those three in just a matter of a couple weeks. But prior to that, we haven’t seen a 20% decline since 2009. I’m not saying that that’s going to happen and it’s inevitable. It is inevitable.
Kevin Kroskey:
At some point, it’s going to happen. It’s just the feature of markets, how they work. But volatility, like we’ve had more recently, is nothing to panic about. That’s really the message that I want people to take away.
Walter Storholt:
Very good. Helpful to get that information. If you’ve got any questions about some of the volatility that’s been happening lately as it relates to your plan, and if you’ve listened to the show for a while or maybe you’re a new listener and you’re wondering, how can I get help navigating through all those things, again, you can always reach out by calling 855-TWD- PLAN or schedule a time to meet with an experienced advisor on the team by clicking the “are we right for you” button on truewealthdesign.com.
Walter Storholt:
Links and contact info in the description of today’s show. Well, Kevin, we are in the midst of a series breaking down the book, “What Retirees Want”. We’ve covered a lot of different angles, from talking about the relationship aspects in retirement to working in retirement, the second careers that some people embark on, as well as an overview of the book and what to expect.
Walter Storholt:
If anybody hasn’t listened to those previous episodes, certainly invite you, go back to episode 88, where we began this series and you kind of get caught up a little bit on what we’ve talked about so far. But today we turn our attention to what retirees want in a home and looking forward to today’s discussion with you.
Kevin Kroskey:
Yeah, no, absolutely. When you think about a home, obviously we spend a lot of time there. There’s different attributes of the home as we age that could become more or less attractive. For instance, as we get older, declining health may make it more difficult to manage the household. It may be more difficult if you’re staying in that same home that you’re currently in and maybe have been for many years, it may be difficult to stay socially engaged.
Kevin Kroskey:
As you age in place, depending on your neighborhood, it could be quite isolating. You could be more reliant upon your family to get there and help you out in that regard. You’re just seeing a lot of change in terms of people’s preferences for homes in general, particularly as they’re aging. You are seeing more and more people renting, which you really didn’t see before.
Kevin Kroskey:
The idea of homeownership is almost an American value, but you are seeing people simplify in a sense that they don’t have that responsibility and they’re shutting it and moving towards an easier lifestyle if you will. Could be in a retirement community or not. People certainly are moving more towards retirement communities, whether they be more active retirement communities or even maybe at a later age, those continuing care retirement communities. I thought we would get into all that today.
Kevin Kroskey:
I do see this as an area that, one, we’re dealing with a lot already for clients that we serve. We have many clients where we have the sort of home transition earmarked in their financial plan. Maybe two home transition earmarked their financial plan. We’ll talk more about that. But first, let me set the stage with just a short passage from the book. The book reads, “We’ve learned that many retirees relocate twice, first to a place desirable for lifestyle, climate, or proximity to family.
Kevin Kroskey:
Later in life, they’re far more likely to move to someplace offering needed support and care. Often assisted living facilities, close to family care, or moving in with family. Those who choose to stay in their pre-retirement homes just make the latter move, if any. Home renovations follow a parallel pattern. Early in retirement, the objective is to make more of a dream home, entertainment, exercise room, home office, gourmet kitchen. Later on renovations accommodate declining mobility or other health conditions and make the home a safer and more functional place to age.”
Kevin Kroskey:
I’m curious, Walt, in the last episode, we spoke about your folks and how they’re contemplating retirement and where they’re living and what have you. Has any of this come up for them through those discussions that they’ve shared with you?
Walter Storholt:
I’d say it’s more for them is location, not so much style of home. I haven’t heard their preferences too much, unlike the two-story versus one-story debate and those kinds of things. Definitely have seen that more with my grandparents though throughout the years as they’ve transitioned. They recently, it was either right before or at the beginning of the pandemic, redid their downstairs bathroom. But the big aha of it, although it’s beautifully done, was making it more are mobility friendly.
Walter Storholt:
Now they’ve had to invest in a ramp for my grandmother after she hurt her neck during the pandemic when she fell. They put in one of those ramp styles that takes you up and down. That was a big renovation cost essentially. Luckily the wiring had already been there from, I guess, the previous owner many, many years before had a ramp in there, so at least that saved a little bit on the cost of having to get that installed.
Walter Storholt:
Of course, grandma’s like, “Now, I’m not using that. I don’t care if I have a broken neck. I’m walking up and down the stairs on my own.” See the previous episode about attitude and positive mindset. My grandmother embodies that to a T. I’ve seen definitely with my grandparents more of that conversation of they very heavily considered moving and getting a first story place, but they decided that they love the condo so much and the view.
Walter Storholt:
They just love their home so much, they’re dealing with the mobility challenges that it presents. But they definitely have made choices to try and stay there by tweaking certain things. But you can definitely see it being a challenge. One day it may be the thing that forces them to have to get out of there. Those are tough conversations.
Walter Storholt:
They’re not as much fun when you transition from those renovations and those things are taken care of being those exciting, fun things of how to make the place better for entertainment and all those kinds of things to the more functional elements.
Kevin Kroskey:
I think your folks and your grandparents probably provide a good example of those two decisions that were mentioned in the book. The first is really more about that desirable place for lifestyle, climate, and things like that. And then, later on, it’s more about finding that support and care and making the home more amenable to aging in place, or if you’re going to get out of the home, going somewhere else where you can do that. That’s probably a pretty good juxtaposition and a nice example we just happen to fall into there.
Kevin Kroskey:
If we dig into some of the numbers as far as what people are doing, what boomers are doing, and even older retirees and boomers, the silent generation, boomers, it’s about 50/50 that they plan to age in place. The stay, go, or…the book actually talks about finding roommates too, which I guess it’s a combination of like Golden Girls meets Friends, the television shows.
Walter Storholt:
Interesting. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kevin Kroskey:
I haven’t seen it, but they talk about some examples in larger cities like New York and what have you, but the stay and go certainly is a prevalent conversation with all retirees. Maybe not if they do decide to stay, maybe it’s going to be later on that more of the go conversation is going to come up. But it’s dynamic. The whole idea of staying, the prior generation definitely held onto that.
Kevin Kroskey:
I think we can all think of maybe our parents or grandparents that maybe were a little bit obstinate about getting help, whether it was coming into the home as they were aging and really couldn’t maintain the household themselves and were almost stubbornly independent, wanting to hold onto that independence. That silent generation, 69% said that they wanted to stay and age in place. Candidly, I think that strikes me as being low.
Kevin Kroskey:
Most people that I’ve encountered, almost all people, I think, wanted to go ahead and stay in place. It was really the few that would look to do something different. It was a home. It just wasn’t a house to them and independence and all kinds of other emotional attachments to it. But today they’re saying…the book authors with the researchers saying that it’s really kind of a coin flip of whether the boomers want to stay at home and age in place.
Kevin Kroskey:
Some of the reasons why they say that they may want to stay is hassle. Hassle was one that was cited. Nobody wants to move. Nobody likes to move. Let’s put it that way. Nobody likes to move, the process of moving, that transition. We always talk about transitions evoking stress. Well, the act of moving is probably all distress or bad stress. But hey, you can pay people to do a lot of things these days. There you go. But I would also call of that inertia.
Kevin Kroskey:
I can think of several clients that have been saying that they’re going to move, they’re going to start working through their house, going through their basements that we have in Ohio and don’t have in Florida, and just get the house ready to sell. Well, they’re getting the house ready to sell now for five, maybe even 10 years. There’s obviously some other stuff that’s going on there, but inertia, I think, is a very, very…
Walter Storholt:
Getting the house ready to sell has definitely been a steady-state for my folks for many years. It’s finally actually happening. I think that statement has been said on and off for about 10 years now.
Kevin Kroskey:
I think there’s definitely a business opportunity if somebody’s serious about it, just to bring that objective unemotional execution to doing it. But I think inertia is huge for sure. Yeah, sure, it’s a hassle, no doubt, but you can get over that and pay movers and what have you. It’s the inertia. It’s going through all the stuff, shedding the memories, whatever the case may be.
Kevin Kroskey:
I also think a big part of it is there’s still a big portion of the population that just don’t know what other options are out there or think that they know, but it just ain’t so. They think that, hey, well, I don’t want to go to a retirement community because it’s just going to be all old grumpy people there, or I don’t want to go to that continued care retirement community. It’s just going to feel like I’m going there to die, or whatever sort of negative stereotypical saying that maybe you can come up with, but it’s certainly changing.
Kevin Kroskey:
There’s a lot of different options that are out there today. Under the go category, if we move away from the stay, as we’ve talked about, and it’s going to be no surprise, certainly people are going towards more the Sunbelt, the warmer climates. They are going to retirement communities more so today in an ever-increasing rate. They’re certainly moving closer to family too. Some examples. Walt, I’m sure you’ve heard of The Villages down in Florida. It’s the stereotypical retirement community on the East Coast.
Kevin Kroskey:
Sun City is the one that comes to mind out on the West Coast, or I guess it’s not on the coast, but out in Arizona. I would call these active adult communities. There’s just a big segment of the population that are in that space. You have a lot of activities. Social engagement is made a lot easier, whether you’re going out golfing with friends, going out for lunch, whatever sort of activities you may be interested in. Pickleball is like all the rage these days it seems in these active adult communities and also skewing younger.
Kevin Kroskey:
You name it. If you go to a place where a lot of people have this time affluence and have some financial resources and security, and you couple them all in this community, it’s like college for retirees. It can be pretty cool. We see that a lot obviously here in Florida. The community that my family and I are in is not that intentionally. We have young kids. We are in the best public school, or one of the best public school districts, in Southwest Florida down here by design.
Kevin Kroskey:
We have more of a mix of families that are here year-round. But the retirees that often choose to be in here, as I talk with them, it’s interesting. They chose to be here. They want to stay active, but they just don’t want to be around all retirees. They want to stay around more of a mix of people and kids. And then you definitely hear some that maybe regret their buying decision and do want to move towards a more retirement-based community without kids. But point being, there’s all kinds of strokes for different folks.
Kevin Kroskey:
I think just educating yourself on what options are out there. It doesn’t mean that you have to relocate to a different state or move to a Sunbelt state or something like that, but what’s available in your local community. I can think in Northeast Ohio, there seems to be a real demand, but maybe not much of a supply of these sort of retirement communities. But you see that’s continuing to start to change where all these things that are important to us in general, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.
Kevin Kroskey:
A lot of those communities can make these things easier. Not only do you have your home, but you have those social relationships. You can get around. Mobility can be easier. They can bring things to you or take you there. And also just maybe even get engaged in some different purposeful activities to touch on the higher-order pyramid sort of needs that we have. This is an area that I definitely see more and more change happening ahead. I think it’s just us slowly evolving and moving.
Kevin Kroskey:
As kids, as our children become more abound to go ahead and pursue certain work or what have you, then you’re seeing more retired people follow their children to new locales as well. We’ll see what COVID lasting effects may happen from that if we’re going to be able to work from anywhere, and maybe we see a reverse of that. I’m skeptical, but time will tell.
Kevin Kroskey:
But I guess the overriding thing that I would say here is really just, rather than just stay at the defacto, well, yeah, we’ve been here for 20 years and we’re going to stay put, or something of the sort, at least get educated. Go online. Search retirement community. Search CCRC. See what’s available in your area or other areas. Go out and visit some of them. If you got this time affluence on your hand, in retirement, you don’t have to work and you’re looking, “Hey, how can I fill my day,” go get educated.
Kevin Kroskey:
See what’s out there. Maybe there’s going to be something that you weren’t aware of that you’re going to like more than what you’re currently doing, which could be awesome. And even if not, at least you’re going to make a more informed decision overall. While all of these kind of getting educated things I think makes sense, a couple of things that I’ll throw out there to keep in mind that are maybe I don’t want to say a mistake, but I’ve seen some people make decisions, they regretted them, and then have undone them, which moving costs money.
Kevin Kroskey:
If you can avoid a decision that you’re going to reverse, it’s probably good. Most people think about downsizing when they get in retirement. What the study shows from the book is that 50% of people when they do go and move from the home that they’ve been in while they’re working do in fact downsize. About 20% stay the same, but maybe a surprising number, 30%, actually upsize.
Kevin Kroskey:
When I think of this, I don’t know what our clients’ statistics are or anything like that, but I can think of at least a handful of cases where people have downsized, they’ve regretted the decision, and then they either remodeled to add on to have some more space or actually moved because they were just unhappy. The often side of the reason is that they didn’t have room for the family when they came to visit. They didn’t have the space that they wanted to go ahead and host holiday meals and things of the like.
Kevin Kroskey:
I’ve never heard anybody say it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s also some social status. Maybe there was just a bit of difference in where they moved to that wasn’t part of their identity and their ego, not in the bad sense, but in the literal sense. But I’ve seen that happen a handful of times where if they could have just stayed where they were, they probably would have because they definitely moved and/or remodeled and spent a lot of money in doing so.
Walter Storholt:
Interesting to hear those different decisions and directions that people choose. I’m sure that’s maybe…would this be one of the more, I don’t know, I guess the more fun decisions that you get to be a part of in the planning process because there’s so much energy and emotion wrapped up into the home? I imagine it’s fun to walk people through all these different possibilities and whatnot.
Kevin Kroskey:
Oh, for sure. I can think of some other cases where literally, I mean, the people live below their means. But when we started talking about what was possible…and not that they were unhappy, but they were content, let’s put it that way. Contentment is a great thing and a great place to be.
Kevin Kroskey:
But when we showed them what was possible, whether it was upsizing their home or having a second home or just even spending a lot more money on travel and staying in a location for an extended period of time, we have several cases like that where people have been able to do those things that they maybe either didn’t think were possible or didn’t even consider before. We nudged them to do so.
Kevin Kroskey:
Yeah, I mean, that’s definitely the good, warm, fuzzy, when you can see people taking action and really get more out of life, more satisfaction out of life, and maybe stretch beyond what they thought was possible or what they knew before. Those are those cases where you come out of the meeting room with just a big grin on your face. You want to feel like you’re pounding your chest, like super financial planners. Those are good days for sure. I do want to dive into the CCRCs a little bit more.
Kevin Kroskey:
Again, CCRC, Continuing Care Retirement Community. These are often places where people go in and it’s independent living it, but then you can progress up to assisted living. Maybe there’s a memory care unit, all the way up to a nursing home as well. You’re seeing more and more and more of these. We have about a handful of clients that are in them currently, and we have at least another handful that have a future move into one of them planned.
Kevin Kroskey:
Let me jump back to the book here for a moment and give a little read and perspective on it. Continuing Care Retirement Communities or CCRCs, also called Life Plan Communities, provide for independent retirement living with home services and meal plans, plus stages of needed care, so the assisted living nursing home memory care, as well as independent living. Many retirees choose to move into CCRCs in advance of needing regular care. You are seeing the average age skew a little bit younger as well.
Kevin Kroskey:
The Moorings Park CCRC in Naples, Florida, which is not too far down the road from where I’m located, of the roughly 1,000 residents, about 700 are an independent living, 200 in assisted living, and 100 in long-term care. The restaurant is like a fine dining establishment. Their clubhouse, is like a private one you wish you’d belong to. Their health club is equal to any I’ve seen. It’s a top-notch community all around. Young or old, you probably want to live there. And that’s true. I’ve been there on a tour.
Kevin Kroskey:
I mean, this is a higher-end one and there’s plenty that are nice that are not higher-end one like that, but it’s really cool. It makes life easier and you can definitely enjoy it. One other thing that’ll go on, one more paragraph that I thought was pretty unique, and we’ll see if we see more of this, but colleges have begun taking advantage of the real estate and trusted brands are also building CCRCs for younger and more active retirees, offering lifelong learning opportunities and access to campus facilities and events.
Kevin Kroskey:
For example, Legacy Pointe is located on the campus of the University of Central Florida, where it fosters intergenerational connections in daily life. At Arizona State University, Mirabella at ASU is a 20 story, 250 million life plan community for over 300 residents. I hadn’t heard of these communities on college campuses, but one, it appeals to me. I think it could be a cool college town, a lot of opportunities to stay active and engaged and learn and grow and have a myriad of opportunities to mingle with people of different life stages.
Kevin Kroskey:
But I bring it up really for the point that I think this is really going to continue to evolve. I think CCRCs are going to continue to grow, and you’re going to see more and more people abandoning their homes and opting for some sort of retirement community. Maybe it’s going to be that active community, like The Villages earlier in retirement, and then moving more towards continuing care type community as they age.
Kevin Kroskey:
I think you’re certainly been seeing that over the last 20 years, but I think as those markets continue to develop and as we live longer and our kids are more mobile and we continue to become more affluent and can afford these things, I think it’s only going to become even more prevalent, and we’re probably going to have many more choices as well.
Walter Storholt:
Interesting to see how that will shift over time. Yeah, it’s like, I guess, as people have gotten to know a little bit more of what people liked about their homes, but where the deficiencies were, they’ve tried to marry those two different things together to create these communities and it seems like a great fit for a lot of people.
Walter Storholt:
I view that as a good thing because maybe it helps that conversation and that worry of having to transition out of being less of a traumatic event for people, which it has been in the past for a lot of families. It’s not a fun thing to go through when somebody really doesn’t want to leave their home.
Kevin Kroskey:
Yeah. I mean, I think if you’re proactive about it, if you’re getting educated on the options that are out there, there’s definitely going to be more and more options available for differing…whatever your choices are. Again, I think just getting over the inertia is probably just step one, just trying to take a pragmatic approach here. See what options are out there. Search Google, go out, CCRC, active retirement community near me, whatever sort of logical search term you can come up with.
Kevin Kroskey:
You can just start poking around. Certainly people’s favorite hobbies these days are to look at Zillow.com or Realtor.com and check out your neighbor’s homes or your home and what it’s worth and what’s available and what’s out there, but all those things. I mean, you have time. Be intentional about it. Think what’s out there. Go visit some of these CCRCs. Go visit some of the active retirement of communities.
Kevin Kroskey:
Keep in mind all these things that we’ve been talking about over the last several episodes about what really makes that retirement satisfaction, its health. Its financial security. It’s having loving relationships with your family and friends, having a purpose. Again, these community-based environments can go ahead and make a lot of those easier certainly at a cost, but there’s plenty of CCRCs that are around us here in Florida that don’t have entrance fees.
Kevin Kroskey:
They may just have a monthly service fee, and they may just have a pay-go system if you do need those higher levels of healthcare. On the other hand, you have those places like The Moorings that I mentioned or Laurel Lake in Northeast Ohio that are really all-inclusive facilities, both from a meal standpoint, as well as from a life care component, and you have options in between too.
Kevin Kroskey:
As with anything, get educated, overcome inertia, start moving the ball forward, think about what you like, what you don’t like, talk with your spouse if you’re married about it, and just get informed and make an educated decision. What you may make today may be different down the road. But if you’re equipped and knowledgeable about what options are out there, you’re probably going to make a better decision overall.
Walter Storholt:
Very good. Well, if you have questions about something we’ve talked about today, about your financial plan, about all these different elements, it gets all wrapped into the comprehensive planning that the team does that True Wealth Design. Kevin and the great staff that he has on hand, a full team of certified financial planners to help guide you through the decision-making process and the planning process. You can go to truewealthdesign.com.
Walter Storholt:
Click the “are we right for you” button to schedule a 15-minute call with an experienced advisor on the team. Or you can call 855-TWD-PLAN if you prefer to get in touch the phone method, that’s 855-893-7526. And as always, the contact info is in the description of today’s show. Kevin, thanks for the help and the guidance on the program today. Enjoyed it. We’ll look forward to continuing our series next time around.
Kevin Kroskey:
Actually, Walt, that is the end of the series, my friend.
Walter Storholt:
Oh, that’s the end of the series?
Kevin Kroskey:
Yes.
Walter Storholt:
Oh my gosh. Oh, well, there it is. Okay.
Kevin Kroskey:
Yeah. I thought four episodes would be plenty.
Walter Storholt:
Perfect.
Kevin Kroskey:
I guess to wet the whistle, actually, we have a guest coming up for the next two, so at least currently scheduled pending any scheduling conflicts that may arise. But Dr. Michael Finke, who does a lot of research on retirement satisfaction, retirement spending, somewhat similar to what we just went through in the book, but I think will bring a different perspective to many key parts, and who’s also very entertaining and engaging.
Kevin Kroskey:
I’ve known him for about a decade, but he’s agreed to come onto the podcast. I’m quite confident that the listeners are going to get a lot out of the next two episodes. Certainly, we’ll hearken back to some of the things that we talked about over the last few with the “What Retirees Want” book, but I think he’ll really be able to bring some additional considerations to the conversation, and I’m really looking forward to it.
Walter Storholt:
Perfect. Well, I can’t wait. A guest will be joining us on the next edition. Again, pending something popping up between now and then, but planned for a guest interview next time around on Retire Smarter. Well, there we go. Thanks, everybody for listening. Don’t forget. You can subscribe to the show on your favorite apps. We’re on Spotify, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, and everywhere else you can find and listen to podcast programming.
Walter Storholt:
And as always, online you can find the full library and more information at truewealthdesign.com. We’ll see everybody next time right back here on Retire Smarter.
Disclaimer:
Information provided is for informational purposes only and does not constitute investment, tax, or legal advice. Information is obtained from sources that are deemed to be reliable, but their accurateness and completeness cannot be guaranteed. All performance reference is historical and not an indication of future results. Benchmark indices are hypothetical and do not include any investment fees.
