The Smart Take:
Pension lump sums will be much LOWER in 2023 than 2022. Listen to Kevin give a brief intro on what is going on and then cut into a replay of episode 62, recorded in December 2020 on the same topic.
Learn timing considerations on how to optimize your pension benefits by understanding the key variables — interest rates and mortality — that determine your lump sum. Company pension plans specifically discussed include Akron Children’s Hospital, Bridgestone, FirstEnergy, Goodyear, Kaiser, Mercy Health, and Rockwell Automation.
Need help with your specific lump sum option?
Want more information on pension claiming strategies? Listen to Episode 38. https://www.truewealthdesign.
HAVE QUESTIONS? Need help making sure your investments and retirement plan are on track? Click to schedule a free 15-minute call with one of True Wealth’s credentialed and experienced professionals.
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Hey, there. Welcome to another edition of Retire Smarter. Walter Storholt with Kevin Kroskey, President and Wealth Advisor at True Wealth Design. Find us online at truewealthdesign.com. A little bit of a different episode for you on today’s program, kind of a replay, a best of if you will, but for very good reason. And so we’ve got an updated spiel for you here at the beginning, and then we’re going to play a piece of a previous show that we have done here on Retire Smarter because it’s very applicable to some recent news in the financial planning realm. Kevin, good to be with you, my friend. What’s up in your world? And tell us a little bit about why we are digging this one up from the archives.
Yeah, you got it. So we’ve had a lot of inquiries recently, and a few clients have had communications from their employer related to their pension and specifically their lump sum pensions. And we’re recording this in mid-August, and there’s going to be some updates that are coming out from the IRS in regards to interest rates, that in large part help determine the amount of these pension lump sums. So what’s going… And think pension lump sums, we’re talking like Northeast Ohio, Akron Children’s Hospital, FirstEnergy, Goodyear, Mercy Health, Rockwell Automation, and Bridgestone. So we have clients at all these places. And so we’re anybody that hasn’t made a decision already and claimed their pension. We always monitor this, but Walt, if you think back to 2020 when COVID came rolling around, and everybody became into science, and then quickly conspiracy theory, if they weren’t already.
But one of the things that happened as we went through that was interest rates pretty much went to zero. And in fact, briefly, the short-term rates even went negative here domestically. And they had been for quite some time in Europe, in Japan, but so race were really low. And we recorded in December of 2020, the title of the podcast, it was episode 62, and that’s what we’re going to replay here after this intro, was Pension Lump Sums: 2021 Maybe The Best Year Ever. And looking back on it from where we sit here in August, it does look like that was the case, 2021 was the best year that we’ve ever seen from a peer rate standpoint. So the lump sums were higher. It’s teeter-totter relationships. Higher interest rates mean lower payouts and vice versa. So 2021 was in fact, the best year ever, 2022 was not too shabby, it was pretty darn close, but 2021 did beat it.
But as we’re looking here in August interest rates, as everybody has probably noticed, whether you’re buying a mortgage or you’re looking at the bond portion of your portfolio with negative returns year to date. Interest rates have moved up quite quickly in large part due to some of the inflation that has been persistent. And the things that really weren’t foreseen largely with Russian’s invasion, energy prices, food prices, COVID, and lockdown in China continue to impact supply chains, among many other issues related to that. But the point being is that interest rates are significantly higher now, and that’s going to impact the rates or excuse me, the payouts for these pension lump sums in 2023. And what we’ve had happened over the last several weeks, a lot of people we’re proactively looking at this for our clients, but there’s apparently been some fire that’s been sparked at some of these employers that I just mentioned about like, “Hey, if we don’t retire now, our lump sums going to go down by 10% next year, we got to make a move.”
And that’s true. Interest rates are a lot higher now, so lump sums are going to be a lot lower next year. So this is definitely something anybody that’s on the cusp of retirement needs to consider. Certainly, if you are on the doorstep to retirement, and your pension lump sum is pretty significant. We had a client that forwarded us his estimate if he retires this year and if he retires in January, and it was about a 10% difference in his case, that was about a $100,000 dollars less in his pension lump sum. So understandably, he was freaking out and like, “Guys, what do I do here?” And so we walked him through it said, “Hey, here’s one, can you afford to retire?” He was still in his 50s, “Here’s what you’re making, here’s what you would forego, and both your compensation and your benefits.” And let’s at least look at this with the nuts and bolts quantitatively and then talk through it.
And the other thing I mentioned to him in his case, he’s working a few years longer, or at least it was originally planning to, I said, “Who knows, even though rates are a lot higher now, who knows what they’re going to be down the road.” And in this episode that we’re going to replay here, I really deconstruct it, it’s called the IRS 417 E-segment rates. Walt, you can hit the button if you want, if don’t have your fingertips, the egg head alert is fully sounded and blaring right now. But it peels back and goes into the inputs, into these sorts of calculations, so people can better understand them. And there’s a lot of misinformation that’s out there, I’ve actually had a few different advisors reach out to me after they listen to it as well, asking for some points of clarification, and with Google, Google knows everything that we do.
And I noticed that we were getting a lot of people reading the articles, that I’ve written over the last decade on this topic, and a few different podcasts. And you can just tell not only from our clients, but from just some of that traffic that you’re seeing, a lot of people have a keen interest in it. And we even had something really unique where a local employer at Rockwell Automation, typically you have to separate from service before you can elect these lump sums. And Rockwell has a special program that’s available to their employees, where they can actually elect a lump sum and not leave. And do not have to retire and not separate from service, and they have to make that election by November. So there’s a lot of people out there that have these pensions, and these pension lump sums that really need to take a careful look.
And we’ve been doing this for a long time, we’re really well versed. And hopefully that the following podcast will further demonstrate that, and help people understand things a little bit more. But if this applies to you, if you have a pension lump sum, that’s available to you. If you are at Rockwell, if you’re at FirstEnergy, if you’re Goodyear, Mercy Health, Akron Children’s, or another employer that has these pension lump sums, and you’re relatively close to retirement and thinking about it. Or maybe thinking about separating from service and going onto another position. Maybe it’s your dream job, maybe it’s something that is a passion project and more of an Encore career, rather than what you’ve been doing for the last 20, 30, 40 years. These are all things, all triggers, all traits that you should probably consider, and maybe take a closer look if you haven’t done so already.
So the episode will dive into this, but everybody’s situation is unique. And literally, if you’re going to make a big decision about retiring, now’s the time to do it. I mean, if we’re going to give advice and somebody has a pension question. Well, we can’t just look at that pension in a vacuum, we really need to look at this in the broader context of your total financial plan. We need to take you through the retire smarter solution, it takes some time to do this, we can work in an expedited fashion, but we need some information. And if you need good advice, we’re certainly capable of helping with this and a lot more. So we thought it was smart to go ahead and reshare and replay this information but also open up that opportunity for someone to reach out and request help from somebody that definitely knows what they’ve been doing and been practicing in this area for quite some time.
Well, very good, Kevin, great lead in an intro. I’m not going to egghead alert you on a replay show, I’m not going to do that to you. So we’ll save that for a full, fresh show next time around. So let’s get to it, Kevin, I want to listen to this previous episode again, this came from December of 2020 back in episode 62. We’re going to jump right into our conversation, to where we get into the nitty and gritty on this. And so check it out, please, enjoy it. And if you have any questions as always, you can reach out to Kevin and the True Wealth Design team, 855-TWD-PLAN is the number.
Again, lots of questions coming in about this topic over the last couple of weeks. So don’t hesitate to reach out if you need some clarification, or want to dive in a little bit deeper. You can also go to truewealthdesign.com and click on are we right for you button, to schedule a 15 minute call with an experienced Advisor on the True Wealth Team. So that’s truewealthdesign.com, and you can check those links and contact info in the description of today’s show. All right, let’s get to it a replay of episode 62, right now.
But yeah, pension lump sums. I think it’s a good thing to talk about and get some updates. What has changed? What is on the horizon and what are you looking at as we approach the end of 2020 here?
Sure. So a first kind of quick recap, if you have a lot of the pension lump sums. So some of the local companies in Northeast Ohio, Akron Children’s Hospital, Bridgestone has a lump sum option now, FirstEnergy Goodyear, Rockwell Automation. These are all local large employers in Northeast Ohio that we serve a lot of clients at, and they all have both a pension or they had a pension, a lot of them have been frozen. So maybe they’re not continuing to accrue additional benefit. However, benefits still have been earned, and so what the company has promised to pay is, “Hey, when you get to a certain age, we will pay you out X amount of dollars for your lifetime.” And that’s what they promised.
But then, what they also do over and above that, oftentimes is they’ll give you some other options. So if you’re married and they can give you a survivor benefit, that if I were to be entitled to one of these pensions and I were to retire from one of these companies, and I want to elect say a 100% survivor benefit. Well, I’ll take a little bit less in terms of my monthly pension, but then if my wife lives longer than I do, that payment will continue for her lifetime as well.
So the survivor benefit is a decision that needs to be made at retirement. How much do we need? It’s like buying insurance through the pension plan, so that’s something that’s important to be mindful of. But then also those that handful of companies I just mentioned also have a lump sum option. So in lieu of taking a monthly income stream for your lifetime and your spouse’s lifetime, you could elect to go ahead and just take a pre-tax amount, roll that over to your IRA. And then you have the money to go ahead and do what you want with, and produce your own income stream, or keep the money invested or what have you over time.
So whenever interest rate, and there’s two main variables that go into determining these lump sums, it’s really the interest rate assumption and interest rates are lower, which is what we’ll talk about today, as well as mortality or how long you’re expected to live. So those are the two big factors that go into it, but what happened in, and the way that this works as it relates to the interest rates, there’s something called the IRS segment 417 E-rates. So I know people are going to be running out to Google just to [inaudible 00:11:29] about.
Let me write that down for reference later.
But almost all plans will use these rates to go ahead and determine the lump sums paid out under these pension plans. And generally the way it works is for most plans in our experience, they’ll use the August rates, so we’ll say August 2020 will determine the interest rate factor that is used, to determine the lump sums paid out in the next year in 2021. Some other plans like we have Akron Children’s, they use as late as the November rates, but by and large most of these plans will use the August rates. Rockwell it’s August or September, I can’t remember on the top of my head, but somewhere around there. So they’ll use the rates for this year, and then they will determine the lump sums for next year. And as we’re all probably aware, interest rates were a lot higher coming into this year and coming into 2020, and then with COVID, well, actually even before COVID, and actually even a little bit towards the tail end of last year, interest rates started falling.
COVID really accelerated that, but the interest rates are significantly less now versus a year ago. And so when I was going through a meeting for one of our clients that was working at one of those companies, that has a sizeable monthly pension, and also has the lump sum option, I had her run a quote for, “Hey, just run the quote for December of this year of 2020, and run it for January of 2021.” And so there was the mortality difference, whether you start a month before or month later is negligible. And basically I just wanted to show her and walk them through, what was going to happen to the lump sum next year, because of the lower interest rates this year, and in their case, it was a 10% increase in the lump sum. So just to use round numbers for discussion purposes, let’s say that the lump sum was a million dollars. In 2020, it was going up to 1.1 million for 10% more, a $100,000 more, just taking it one month later in the calendar year of 2021.
And so, of course, they knew that this was going to happen, but it was a surprise, the extent, I mean, it was quite a large dollar sum. So they were pleasantly surprised of course, because it was significantly larger. And this is really going to happen for all lump sums next year, whether the plans are using the August rates or the November rates, uniformly they’re lower this year than last year, and significantly lower. So you’re going to have, may not be 10% for your pension plan, maybe it’s eight, maybe it’s 12, there’s some other factors that do go into it. But nonetheless, the rates are definitely going to… or the payouts are definitely going to be much higher in 2021.
So why this matters is, some pension plans like Goodyear, for example, you have to elect the lump sum at the time that you separate from service. So say if somebody’s looking to retire from Goodyear, and they’re saying, “Hey, Kevin, you’re my advisor. When should I retire? What’s a good… Any sort of timing considerations that I have.” And usually there’s a few, certainly you want to be mindful of any what’s going on in that tax year. If there’s a bonus that they’re eligible for, maybe they want to make sure that they stay through that eligibility period. So they get paid the bonus out at least to a certain extent or what have you. But if the plan is, if we’ve done the analysis and if we’re in agreement that taking the lump sum makes sense. Well, because the lump sums going to be a lot higher in 2021, we would certainly want to wait for them to retire in 2021 if, as in the case of Goodyear, they have to elect a lump sum at the time of retiring or separating from service.
Not all pension plans are like that. Akron Children’s, for example, our client retired from there a couple years ago, and she’s been able to defer the commencement of her pension, but she can go ahead and elect a monthly amount or a lump sum when she’s ready. So the rules are different between each pension plan, again, the interest rate and how they work on those two variables, as far as the interest rate assumption, as well as the mortality assumption are very similar. But every plan has its own rules and you really need to roll up your sleeves, and get into what’s called the summary plan document and understand that. And it gets pretty technical, but that’s why people like me can help with this, if you really understand how it works, you can make a more optimal decision.
So there’s one other thing that I think is I important to know. I don’t know if it’s important for me to know, I’ll share. Walter, you can tell me from a casual listenership here perspective in a moment, whether how important it is or isn’t to know, I suppose. But these segment rates, so there’s actually three segments. And the way that it works is think of, I just use a case of someone age 65, and I pick 65 because that’s usually when there is an unreduced pension. If you take it before age 65, a lot of these pension plans will pay you a benefit, but it’ll be a reduced benefit because you started it before 65. It’s very similar to how social security works, where if you start social security at 62, you’re going to get a reduction because you started it before your full retirement age at 66, or 67, or whatever the case may have been.
So same thing with the pensions. But if you have somebody that’s 65, and you look at their life expectancy under these IRS tables, maybe they have just for discussion purposes, let’s say it’s 23 years of life expectancy. So you go from 65 and it takes them up to age 88. Well, now you look at these segment rates and these segment rates, if you just chart out the monthly pension each, and just annualize it over all those years, over all those 28 years, there’s three different interest rates that come into these segments. So segment one, the interest rate applies to the years one through five, segment two applies through years six through 20, so three times as many years as segment one, and then segment three applies to years 20 plus. So when you think about how this works, say, if you have somebody in this case who’s 65, you have a 23 year life expectancy.
And I just mentioned these segment three rates only apply to years over 20, so 21 and further on down the road. Well, in that case, you’re only going to have two or three years, that are really going to be discounted at the segment three rates. You’re going to have the majority in that segment, two bucket, and then you’re going to have a handful in that segment, one bucket. And the way that this works mathematically is you… These are future dollars, a dollar at your age, if you’re 65 today, a dollar today is worth more than that same dollar at your age, 88. So these interest rates are used to basically discount those future values back to today’s dollars. And when you look at the interest rates, I just pulled off the August rates for 2020. It’s about 0.5, 2% for segment one, 2.2 for segment two, and then 3.03 for segment three. And they’re all lower, much lower than they were a year ago.
And so sometimes clients won’t will ask me well, and then we’ll ask this question in different ways. I had a client ask me the other day, that’s looking for a house and they haven’t found anything they want. So they’re actually renting for a few months, and they’re concerned about, “Hey, our interest rates going to go up. And is that really going to end up costing me a lot more money, if I’m sitting on the sidelines and interest rates go up?” And so the way that I answered that was, well, of course, nobody has a crystal ball, but it depends what interest rates you’re talking about. So everybody’s heard about the federal reserve, and this happens almost every time that there’s like an interest rate announcement, where it’ll be on the nightly news. And they say, “Well, the federal reserve cut interest rates.” And so everybody thinks interest rates went down.
And the federal reserve has influence over shorter-term interest rates, whether it’s one year rates, or two year rates, or what have you. They don’t have a lot of influence with their interest rate policy over medium-term rates, say like segment two rates or 10-year US bond rates, and certainly not longer-term rates. Those are way more market influence than federal reserve influence. And in fact, even if we go back to March when the federal reserve was cutting interest rates, the short term interest rates had already moved lower, the fed was actually just catching up to where the market was. So the federal reserve influences rates, but they don’t necessarily make rates in the market, the market buyers and sellers determine that information. So I told my client, I said, “Well, you’re probably going to be… How long are you going to be in this home?”
They’re like, “Oh, this is our forever home.” And I’ve been working with them for a while in know their situation, and it probably is pretty much close to the forever home. So they’re going to get a longer-term interest rate, because it’s just going to make sense, it’s going to match how long they’re going to be in the home and what have you. And I told them, I said, “Well, the federal reserve already stated that they’re going to keep interest rates low through 2022.” And if this economic downturn is anything like what they did going through 2008, they kept rates near zero for five years. So I think we’re probably in somewhat of a similar scenario like that going forward, and they’ve already stated that they’re going to keep it near zero for the next couple years. So those are the short-term interest rates. But when you look to the longer-term interest rates, which I mentioned are more market focused, you look around the world.
Europe has negative interest rates. Japan has negative interest rates or near zero. So even though our rates are low, we actually look pretty good and pretty high relative to the rest of the developed world. So our higher rates relatively speaking, have a lot of foreign money coming in and buying our treasury bills, treasury bonds, and keeping these interest rates low. So it’s probably not going to move anytime soon, is what I shared with my client that was looking to buy the mortgage. But I just explained the difference between the shorter-term and the longer-term interest rates. That same sort of thinking applies to these segment rates and what we can expect for changes in the lump sum over time. So if you’re thinking about retiring in the near term, at least as it relates to the lump sum, certainly 2021 is going to be a better year than 2020.
Well, what about 2022, is it going to make sense to wait even more? We don’t know. We know that these segment one rates should stay really low. The federal reserve does have more influence over those rates, and they’ve stated again that they’re going to keep them near zero, so that’s probably going to be there. But if I actually look at this and say, “Okay, Hey, it’s only five years, so how much impact does that really have on the lump sum?” It’s a little bit less than 30%. So that shorter term rate that we have more certainty on I would say, is only going to influence about 30% of the lump sum. If we go to that segment two, and again, this is a 15 year band, so three times more years than segment one. Here we see it’s probably going to be about, that those interest rates are going to influence about two thirds of lump sum value. So somewhere in the mid-60% range, depending on the rates.
And that part, we don’t know. Again, it seems likely that rates are going to stay a little bit lower for a while, because of some of those other developed countries are much lower, and we actually look pretty attractive on a relative basis. So that attractiveness attracts money coming in, and so when they buy bonds at these interest rates that we have currently in the US, it keeps those prices lower, or keeps them stable. So that’s how I think about this because some people maybe they’re getting close to being ready to retire, but they still like their work, and they’re weighing that decision. So this is definitely maybe not a primary factor for some, that are still working as far as the timing aspect and the lump sum, but it certainly something to consider. And if you have a sizable pension, then a $100,000, I mean, it’s not chunk change, right? As in the example that I gave.
So these are all things that matter. Again, the segments get a little bit more wonky, we don’t have a crystal ball. But I can do some reasonable deduction and think through about, well, how is this likely to change over the next couple of years? We have more certainty on the first segment, we have less certainty on the second segment, but just where we’re at right now. It just seems like the rates probably aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. Higher interest rates, inflation risk is probably a little bit more of a medium term, phenomenon that we may be dealing with, but that’s where it all shakes out. So, Walter, I am definitely going to take a pause here, and you may be sleeping right now, but help me sound less egg-headed, please.
I’m just kidding. I’m still here.
Oh, no, I got worried there. I was like, “Oh, man, I did put him asleep.”
I thought I’d just joke with you a little bit.
Oh my goodness.
No, still here, still here. It’s a lot of moving parts for what sounds like such a simple equation, but I guess that’s the beauty that you find in the work that you do, Kevin. You always are looking to say, “All right, well, the world looks at this in a pretty, I don’t know, ones and twos kind of way. Yes or no kind of way.” And you just find no matter what the situation is that we talk about here on the show, 15,000 different ways to analyze it, and I think that’s awesome that you are able to do that. So something that just sounds very simple like, okay, deciding to take the pension lump sum, and some of the choices that have been surrounded in that. You’re looking at interest rates, you’re looking at so many different factors that go into the equation.
And I feel like it’s the last episode where we’re talking about the iceberg example. This is just another illustration of that, about how you guys just go into such incredible detail in your decision making. And it’s something that the average person just doesn’t have the time to do or to figure out. And it’s nice to be able to have folks like you, who are in your profession to look into the hood on these kinds of things. I’m more in just an awe at the level of detail and analysis you can put into each of these decisions for the clients and people you work with.
I’ll tell a story. I think it’s a funny story. We’ll see if it’s funny the way I tell it, I suppose, but-
I won’t pretend I’m sleeping at the end of it. I promise.
Thank you. You woke me up by you pretending you were sleeping by the way. Thank you for that.
That’s good. Shot in the arm a little bit.
I don’t need coffee. So a few years ago, I was invited to speak to a group of near-retirees at Rockwell Automation. And most of the companies I just mentioned, I mean, we have some hospitals in that group, but a lot of engineers of those companies, we have a lot of engineers that we serve. And engineers love spreadsheets, as do I, and I was giving this presentation about some changes that were happening with both the interest rates, as well as the mortality assumption. And none of the engineers in the group were aware of the mortality assumption, so they challenged me on that. And then I was proven right, two weeks later when the IRS came out with a notice for the year about the mortality tables changing. Because everybody in that room was thinking like, “Hey, interest rates have gone up, we should probably be retired before year-end.”
I said, “Well, that’s true. However, there’s a change that’s being made with the IRS and these mortality assumptions, people are living longer, so they’re actually going to update this. And now because the pension plans have to provide you an income stream for more years, that’s actually going to be more than an offset to what you’re going to lose on the movement in the interest rates. And then I made a comment about, and my spreadsheet, and my analysis, and I just saw everybody in the room turn to one another and start talking to one another. And I’m like, “What did I say?” And I asked the person that invited me there to give the talk afterward. And they said, “Well, it was just that everybody in the room, because they’re all engineers, have their own spreadsheet. And so they’re all compare comparing how accurate you said your projections were with how projections were.”
And it was like this, I don’t know I was speaking their language, but just maybe really self conscious like, “What did I say? I just said spreadsheet in here. I was just speaking my people, I suppose.” But these things do matter, and they do. It’s something that the thing I like about this, it goes with the financial planning, it goes with the tax planning, a lot of this stuff that we’ve talked about in the last episode about the investment selection, and paying attention to certain criteria that matter and ignoring others that don’t. Looking at these lump sums and just decomposing the formula and understanding the key variables, and then figuring out what really matters and how we can optimize that. I mean, that is one its high probability, that’s going to pay off for one, you’re going to make your benefits more optimal than two. It’s not looking a crystal ball and saying, “Well, I think this stock or this basket of stocks is going to outperform the other one.”
I mean, that is much less certain, that tends to not add much value. And when you look at the things like we’re talking about today, and a lot of the things we’ve touched on through the podcast over the last couple years. We like to focus on those things where we can add value and have a high probability of a paying off for our clients, I mean, it’s why they pay us money, and it’s why they get a return on their investment. So it probably matters more to me than some other people, certainly people aren’t going to be diving into these differences. But if you’re paying for financial advice, you want a good advice and you want somebody that’s both good on the details, as well as the relationship and understanding you, and what’s important to you.
These sorts of details that we talk about are incredibly important. And at least for some of our clients, not for all of them, but for those that have big pensions, those that have flexibility over their timing decisions, those that as far as retirement or when to commence their pension benefit. I mean, we’re talking maybe six figures in some cases, so definitely not inconsequential, but I would say the thought process is probably even more important. If you have a good critical thinker that can work through these and then explain it, hopefully in plain English to somebody, and help them make a more informed and smarter decision, to me, that’s good advice. So hopefully that comes through in the podcast, but that’s really what we try to do day in, day out.
There’s a method to the spreadsheet madness, in other words.
Well, there’s a purpose, yes. There’s a purpose behind it, for sure.
A purpose behind it. I like that, that’s good. This is helpful, Kevin, I think to take such a one little piece, one little element of financial planning of retirement planning. And to break it down into such level of detail, it just shows the importance of making the right decisions with your finances, with your money over and over again. You have the opportunity to make good decisions, each and every time you start talking about these kinds of things. And so you got to stay on top of it, you got to stay on the ball, if you want to make the most of your life savings and of retirement, and this is a good illustration of that, I think. So very helpful and very cool. Any parting thoughts or good to go for today’s episode, no burrito stories this week, like last week’s episode.
No, no burrito.
Did you find another good burrito anywhere? Were you able to refine a replacement?
I’m always happy with Chipotle, the problem for me [inaudible 00:30:42].
Yeah. They do pack it in with pretty good amount of meat, that’s for sure.
Oh, yeah. Then you get double meat on top of it, so I’m happy. But I guess in a closing statement, I mean, anybody that’s at Akron Children’s, Bridgestone, Firestone, FirstEnergy, Goodyear, Rockwell, all those places have pensions where it makes sense in my view, for many, many of those people that work there, to take the lump sums and over the monthly pension amount. And those 2021 is going to be a very, very attractive year to do so. And it’s probably we’ll see how 2022 goes, but anything can happen, interest rates could go lower, maybe not so much probability wise, but if you are in that group where you have a pension and you have a lump sum and you’re nearing retirement, I mean, if you really haven’t taken a close look at this yet, I mean, now is really the time. I mean, you need to go ahead and plan, and then you’ll have the clarity and confidence and make a good decision about what’s right for you.
Let this serve as a call to action to you, if you fit into that category, for sure. Reach out to Kevin Kroskey, he and the True Wealth Design team, will help walk you through an analysis of your plan of your financial situation, and look at some of these kinds of opportunities that might be available to you. And help you evaluate all these decisions, so that you can achieve any retirement and financial goals that you have. 855-TWD-PLAN is the number to call, if you want to get in touch with Kevin, again, that’s 855-TWD-PLAN.
And you can also go to truewealthdesign.com, that’s truewealthdesign.com, and click on the, are we right for you button, to schedule your 15 minute initial call with an experienced financial advisor on the True Wealth Team. Very easy to do, just go to truewealthdesign.com and click on the, are we write for you button, and that’ll begin the conversation. Kevin, appreciate the help very much so on today’s show. Any big Thanksgiving plans for you guys as we near that holiday, and trying to navigate the waters of COVID, and family gatherings, and those kinds of things.
We’re not sure. My daughter has the whole week of school off, so we’re debating if we want to go somewhere or what we want to do. But we actually just learned that she had Monday and Tuesday off last week.
Oh, that’s pretty nice.
Yeah. So we’ll see, so no plans yet, but my beloved Pittsburgh Steelers do play the Baltimore Ravens, or the dirty birds as we call them in our household on Thursday night on Thanksgiving. So we definitely [inaudible 00:33:08] to that.
Oh, we are actually getting a good Thanksgiving game this year. Wow. That’s amazing.
Yes. Yes, we are. So no more Detroit Lions or maybe they are playing, but at least we have a good game too.
They probably play early. I think they started throwing in that night game, because the day games have always been such stinkers with the Lions playing maybe, so that’s pretty cool. Well, have a great Thanksgiving. We’ll be talking to you again as we approach December and the end of this crazy year that is 2020, but best to you and yours, and we’ll talk again soon. Thanks, Kevin.
Likewise. Thank you, Walter. Bye-bye.
All right. Absolutely. And that’s Kevin Kroskey. I’m Walter Storholt. Thanks for joining us. Hope everybody has a great couple of weeks, and we’ll talk to you soon, right back here on Retire Smarter. Thanks for listening.
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