Episode #15: Integrated Advice Is Better Advice

Episode #15: Integrated Advice Is Better Advice

The Smart Take:

When it comes to building a holistic retirement plan, all of the individual pieces should be working together harmoniously, whether that’s planning, investing, or taxes. Let’s talk about why integrated advice is often hard to come by, and why it’s crucial to building a successful retirement plan.

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The Host:

Kevin Kroskey – AboutContact

Speaker 1:                           Welcome to Retire Smarter with Kevin Kroskey. Find answers to your toughest questions, and get educated about the financial world. It’s time to retire smarter.

Walter Storholt:                Thanks so much for joining us for another edition of Retire Smarter. I’m Walter Storholt alongside Kevin Kroskey, president and wealth advisor at True Wealth Design, serving you throughout Northeast Ohio. You can find us online by going to truewealthdesign.com, lots of great information there on the website, and you can even listen to past episodes of the show and subscribe using your favorite podcasting app, truewealthdesign.com, again your place to go check out.

Walter Storholt:                Kevin thanks for joining us on this edition of the podcast, we’ve got lots of great stuff to talk about. How have you been?

Kevin Kroskey:                  I’ve been well Walter, thank you for joining me too. I’m excited, we’ve been kind of taking annuities out to the woodshed the last couple episodes and we’ll do a little change of pace this time.

Walter Storholt:                Yeah we’ve got some new things to talk about on today’s program, but still just as interesting. And I’m sure we’re going to still get you to be just as passionate as you were during some of those annuity talks over the last couple of episodes. So get ready cause we’re going to be firing a lot of good stuff at you today.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Alright, I’m ready.

Walter Storholt:                Well before we dive into our main topic of conversation on today’s show, which is going to be talking about this idea of integrated advice. You may hear it talked about as holistic planning, that seems to be quite the buzz word, not just in the financial realm, but in all things in life these days. That holistic type approach, making sure all the pieces are working together in your financial plan and we’re going to have some good examples about when that has happened, and the benefits of it, and when it hasn’t happened, and some of the dangers of not having that integrated advice when it comes to your financial situation. But we also thought we would take the opportunity here on the podcast for those of you who are listening to this show within a couple of weeks of it being posted this will be relevant to you. If you happen to be stumbling upon this episode in 2023, I guess Kevin then fast forward a couple of minutes to get to the rest of the conversation.

Walter Storholt:                But I wanted to take a look at the market, just kind of what we’ve been seeing over the last several months Kevin, and it’s probably the most popular thing that people talk about when people come into your office I would imagine. You know, “What’s going on in the economy? What’s going on in the market?” How are you reading things currently, and what should people who are planning for their financial future be thinking about right now?

Kevin Kroskey:                  Couple things. One of the things you mentioned, I think what we’re going to talk about here frankly is timeless because it’s behavior related more than market related. So people are people, we have emotional reactions that fire off, and fire off pretty gosh darn quickly. And then it goes to our more rational part of our brain and basically we use our rationality to justify how we’re feeling or process our feelings. And that worked really well when we were all cavemen and we hand to survive from these big creatures that were chasing us around.

Kevin Kroskey:                  But our rear brain, or that part of our brain that fires off a lot of those fight or flight emotions does a really terrible job discerning a bear in the woods from a bear market. And the former can potentially cause great harm to you, the latter ultimately does not typically cause you great harm as long as you have some proper planning, and you have some prudent behavior.

Kevin Kroskey:                  So one of the things that happened in late 2018, the market just got volatile again. And it’s noting, I would say nothing new. Frankly the period of time that we had leading up to 2018 was incredibly calm and that was out of the normal. So the volatility that we had in 2018 was really kind of a little bit more of a restoration back to normal. But going into December, well throughout December, the market, I’ll just call the market the S&P 500. But it was down by about 8%, excuse me 9% in December. And I think it hit a low right around Christmas Eve, and then bounced back pretty sharply the day after Christmas. So maybe Santa brought us a little bit of gift.

Kevin Kroskey:                  But a lot of people were freaking out, acting imprudently, acting emotionally and not thinking rationally. And in December alone it was the biggest month on record where people pulled money out of actively managed mutual funds. And Morningstar and other fund companies track this behavior, but you just saw a big stampede, people selling. People, whether they were going to another fund, or to cash, or stick it under the mattress, who knows. But it was the largest month on record for outflows from actively managed mutual funds. And we’re doing this podcast recording, this is February 19th, so yeah it’s kind of time sensitive in the sense, but here we are January it bounced back and was up about 8%. And here we are year to date up 11%.

Kevin Kroskey:                  So all those people frankly that sold out in December made that mistake of having that behavioral bias and just looking and saying, “Wow, hey this is not good. This is a bear in the woods and it might kill me. It’s not a bear market and I can’t tell the difference between the two anyway. I’m just going to mistake activity for control, I’m going to hit the sell button. I’m going to call my advisor, I’m going to call my broker, I’m going to log into my account on-line and I’m just going to calm the pain. I’m going to make it feel a little bit better.” And if they’re actually looking at it right now it was the exact wrong thing to do.

Kevin Kroskey:                  And it’s one of those things, timing the market sounds great. If you could only miss the worst days how much higher would your returns be. And if you go to truewealthdesign.com I wrote an article on this in February, just a couple days ago talking about this. And there’s this allure to it, because not only is there this financial gain but I think it’s really more of an emotional avoidance about the pain of going down, and seemingly to lose money. But just as we saw in December with the market going down 9%, and now here we are six weeks later and the market’s up more than 11%. You just don’t have that crystal ball. It’s difficult to be right, and not only do you have to be right when to get out, you have to be right when to get back in.

Kevin Kroskey:                  And there’s all kinds of examples through history where people maybe made a good prediction, maybe got lucky, maybe they called the ’87 crash and got out, or maybe they said, “Hey I’m going to get out in 2007 because there’s a lot of risk out there,” so they avoided the negative returns in 2008. But the problem is, when you go back and look, can they go ahead and repeat that when the next thing happens? And the evidence is incredibly poor that somebody can do that. So you don’t want to mistake activity for control. You don’t want to mistake luck for skill. And the only way that you’re going to ensure that you’re going to get all the positive returns of the market is to stay invested throughout both the ups and downs.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Now from a planning standpoint, certainly you have to know where your money’s coming from, you know for tomorrow, for the next year or two years. And certainly retirees versus if you’re still working it’s a little bit different. But anything that’s in a stock should really be longer term money, for that minimum five years, preferentially even longer than that before you would have to touch that risky stuff. So unfortunately people are predisposed to making bad decisions. I like to site a study that was done, I think it was around 2005 at the University of California. And it was a series of questions that … I think it was the psychology team teamed up with the finance department and they studied people with brain damage, and then they studied people with healthy brains. I might even say people like you and me Walter are these healthy brain people.

Walter Storholt:                That’s questionable, debatable.

Kevin Kroskey:                  I don’t know if my wife would say that, but you know hey. And what they found was, they went through a series of questions and they found that through these questions that people with brain damage were actually exhibiting better investing behavior traits than those with healthy brains. And specifically they had damage to the rear part of their brain, to the amygdala, to that part of the brain that fires off that fight or flight that saved us years ago, generations ago when we actually had the bear in the woods, or the dinosaur, or whatever the heck it was that was chasing us, that causes us a lot of harm today.

Kevin Kroskey:                  So, you know we’ve probably talked about this a little bit more than I was expecting, but this is frankly a timeless message because we are these emotional people, the market’s going to have ups and downs and people are going to keep making bad behavioral mistakes. But this is another example why it pays not to do that, pays not to go ahead and panic out, mistake activity for control, or think you’re doing something where you can actually predict what the market’s going to do on a daily, monthly, or yearly basis. It just doesn’t work.

Walter Storholt:                A really cool comparison I think though, the bear in the woods is not the bear market. The two aren’t the same, yet we often treat it that way, and that’s a mistake from a mentality standpoint. I’ve never heard it put that way, and that’s pretty neat to think about it in that light, and in those terms. And yeah, sometimes we just don’t want to be involved in that downside. Sometimes it’s the emotional, sometimes it’s the greed where we want to try and time the market. But yeah you’re right, and so much of it comes back to a kind of pain avoidance, and that fight or flight mentality. So, that’s pretty cool.

Walter Storholt:                So remember that as the market goes through its ups and downs. It’s tough, Kevin as we hear in the news all the time, “This is it this is the crash, it’s finally here. It’s coming.” And we hear that constantly, we we’re hearing it really ramp up there before the holidays, and then sure enough we’re back to an upward trend at the beginning of the year, and it’s just hard to wrap your head around some of those swings and those ups and downs Are we seeing larger swings and ups and downs than we have throughout history? Is this kind of unprecedented what we’ve been experiencing the last couple of year? Or is this still par for the course, this is the market, this is how its always acted?

Kevin Kroskey:                  No, it’s nothing new. Not to get too wonky here, but the market over time exhibits something that the really smart people call volatility clustering. What that means is when it starts spiking, similar to what it did in 2007, it tends to stay volatile for a while. And so not like an EKG where you have a consistent spike, or your heartbeat, or some sort of monitor like that where there’s a certain rhythm to it. The market generally exhibits these periods of calmness like we had for several years going back to the post coming out of the Great Recession, all the way up through the recent times. And now we’ve had some volatility spikes. They haven’t been anything remotely like 2008/2009, what have you. But that’s what we’ve exhibited over the last several decades.

Kevin Kroskey:                  There used to be a lot wider swings when you would go back even further. If you went back Great Depression time because there’s a lot less liquidity in the market, there’s a lot more mechanisms in the market today that have some guardrails. There’s a lot more liquidity, meaning that there’s people that are paid to buy and sell. If you don’t have liquidity it’s kind of like selling your house. You may sell it right away and get lucky, or it may sit on the market for a year because that market is not really that liquid. So the market changes over time, and different markets change differently. There’s commodities markets, stock markets, bond markets, what have you. And all of those are a little bit different, and some of them have evolved over time.

Kevin Kroskey:                  But another saying that I heard somebody say that I have adopted is, “Saying, this time is different, usually ends up costing you more money than anything else. That’s four very expensive words to say and to act upon.” People tend to project things linearly, but projecting kind of a regime change, saying, “Hey this time really is different,” yeah the market always came back before, but the sky is going to fall, or I don’t like this president, or I don’t like that country, or this is in the news, and whatever it is.

Kevin Kroskey:                  It really comes down to I think your basic perspective, are you an optimist or are you a pessimist? And I would say, not to sound harsh, but there’s a basic difference between investors and savers. And I would say savers generally, and forgive the stereotype, but generally skew more to the pessimistic side, where investors probably skew more towards the optimistic side, and believe that hey things are going to get better. Yeah there’s all kinds of issues in the world, in the markets, in the political economy, but hey look where we were at before, and we keep growing and things keep getting better and we figure it out. And oh by the way the returns keep coming along too.

Kevin Kroskey:                  So I think there’s probably a fundamental difference between people, certain people that work in banks encounter a lot of savers, and when you try to make an investor out of a saver it’s usually a very difficult and tough road to hoe for everybody involved.

Walter Storholt:                Well you bring to light I think a natural transition into our main topic today, to talk about this idea of integrated advice, or a holistic plan, or just complete planning. Depending on how you want to bracket or describe this planning process, we’re talking about something that’s more than just discussing saving. More than something that’s just discussing, okay what investment is right for me, or where can I get the best return. The conversation’s that you have with clients is a lot different than what they’re going to get in a bank, or maybe even working with a broker or something like that.

Walter Storholt:                I know that you and the team at True Wealth Design, Kevin, really focus on making sure that every little angle is looked at, that the entire picture is covered in somebody’s planning process right?

Kevin Kroskey:                  Yeah. I would describe it this way. For almost all of our clients there’s three things that we handle them year in year out. They have in different investment management that we need to handle them, tweaks to the portfolio. Maybe we do need to make a change to our portfolio recipe, or investment allocation. Maybe we need to change the ingredients or change things around a little bit for different reasons. Maybe we need to generate cash for them in retirement. That’s kind of one of our core things that we do, planning, making sure that not only were you looking at today and generating the cash for today, but having that framework to make sure that money’s going to last through a lifetime. To make sure that we’re looking for different opportunities to mitigate risk, to manage transitions from work to non-work, and on to Social Security.

Kevin Kroskey:                  And when you get in your 70s having the prior distributions and going from a workplace employer health plan to your own individual health plan, or onto Medicare. I mean those are all things that kind of fall under the planning umbrella for a lot of our clients. And then thirdly, everybody has to file a tax return. And if you don’t and you don’t do that long enough you’re going to get in trouble. But a big part of the thing that we do is making sure that those three areas, the planning, the investing, the taxes, are not only taken care of but they’re taken care of well. And perhaps more importantly, they’re all integrated together in the client’s overall financial life plan.

Kevin Kroskey:                  So certain clients have insurance needs, or if there’s estate planning. And those things come up from time to time, or maybe there’s a big purchase or something. But those three things really we’re doing year in and year out for clients. And in my experience, well I mean frankly I can tell you from different industry reports that there’s only about 10% of financial advisors that have tax work in house. And frankly there’s a lot of them, and even certified financial planners, that had some education and passed some minimum level of testing even on tax. They just don’t deal with it. A lot of times you get this finger pointing where it says, “Hey consult your tax advisor.”

Kevin Kroskey:                  The reason why I bring this up is, I had a client send me an E-mail probably about two weeks ago. And I just called her back, I decided it was just easier to talk through her questions. But here is the situation, and as soon as we got done with our conversation I asked her if I had her permission to share this. So certainly I’m not going to share any names, but she started laughing, she said, “Yes, absolutely. Please do share this, this should not have happened.”

Kevin Kroskey:                  So the story’s this. So my client is the power of attorney for her brother, and unfortunately her brother is not in good health, has stage IV cancer. And she is now power of attorney for him, and helping with his bill paying, and his care, and where he’s living, and all these sorts of things. We’ve been working together, I don’t know probably seven or eight years now. And again, we’ve been handling their planning, their taxes, their investing, and some other things that came up in their personal situation. And so she knows how we work. And I think we were pretty much advisor that she worked with. She had some financial sales people before that sold her and her husband some things. But I would say that we were the first advisor that worked with them on a proactive basis.

Kevin Kroskey:                  So she got comfortable with what we did. And now she had to go out to this other firm that her brother was previously working with, still is working with, just down the road from us. And this place, I know of these people, I’m not going to use any names, but they’ve been around for about 30 years. I think they have about 500 or 600 million dollars under advisement. So its not a small place, there’s probably 20-30 employees. So just because somebody has a lot of, I guess money under management, doesn’t mean that they’re necessarily doing a great job. But here’s what happened.

Kevin Kroskey:                  So my client called her brother’s advisor and said, “Hey I need some money for my brother’s care. I’m POA, I’ve already given you the documents and what have you, and here’s how much money I need.” And his response, to paraphrase was, “Okay great. Just tell me which account you want to take it out of.” And meanwhile there was an IRA account that had yet to be taxed money. There was a Roth account that when you pull it out it’s tax free. And then there was also an individual account, those accounts that if you have investments in them kick off a 1099 every January, and you have to claim on your tax returns. So he had these three different types of accounts, all taxed differently. Some of them had different investments.

Kevin Kroskey:                  And here she’s saying, “Hey I need X amount of dollars,” I think it was a few thousand dollars, and he says, “Well great just tell me which account you want to take it out of.” And Walter you want to guess what her response was?

Walter Storholt:                What was that?

Kevin Kroskey:                  Her response was, “Well isn’t that your job?”

Walter Storholt:                I’m not supposed to do that.

Kevin Kroskey:                  And honestly when I started the business more than 10 years ago, it’s not like we had all these capabilities back then. But frankly I looked at it like hey this is our job, and we need to figure these things out, and we need to make our client’s lives simpler and better, and integrate this advice for them and figure it out. And I couldn’t agree with her statement any more. So unfortunately he did not give her any advice, and so she hung up the phone, sent me an E-mail, and then we spoke for about 15 or 20 minutes and we just talked through the situation really quick. And sure enough I was able to tell her which account to take it out of without really any tax implication for her brother’s situation.

Kevin Kroskey:                  And you get that so often. Unfortunately it’s quite commonplace that people get it. The big firms that advertise during the golf matches on Sunday, they do not want any liability for anything their advisors say regarding the taxes. So if you go to one of those big firm places, you are definitely going to get the, “Consult your tax advisor statement,” when anything like that comes up. And if you go to like the place that I just mentioned, I mean 500, 600 million, 20, 30 employees, I mean they’ve been around for a while and I would expect and hope that their sophistication would be more than what it was, at least as it was exemplified in this story. But honestly you don’t see it.

Kevin Kroskey:                  And there’s kind of a catch 22 here as well, because the other side of it is, well okay I’ll just go to my tax guy or gal and get the advice. Well, I can tell you that most tax people do not do proactive planning, they’re not going to be taking a look at, hey what do I have going on, what’s kind of a multi year approach here to minimize my income tax and make sure that I have more money to spend in retirement, make my money last longer, what have you. They’re going to at best kind of take a look at your current tax rate and say, “Okay here’s what you got, just go ahead an pull it out of here,” sort of thing. They don’t know what your retirement plan looks like.

Kevin Kroskey:                  And when I talked about some of those services that really people need year in year out, and you look over time, I mean there’s certain inflection points when somebody can go from a very high tax bracket, to retiring, and now they have a lot of control over what their tax return is going to look like. And which one of those three types of accounts they’re going to be pulling money out of all has different tax implications, and we have control over that. And then they’re going to maybe start their pension or Social Security which also has tax implications, and required distributions down the road. So, if you understand how to integrate these three areas, ultimately you’re going to be able to go ahead and have a retirement plan that truly is going to be able to last longer, going to allow you to spend some more money, maybe retire earlier. There’s these few big levers that you can pull.

Kevin Kroskey:                  We’ve been doing the, I would call it an outsourcing for about the last 10 years. So for about 10 years now we’ve worked with a CPA firm that has taken care of our client’s tax work. So people, the certified financial planners at True Wealth Design, we always do the forward looking stuff. We’re doing tax projections for a lot of clients, we’re doing the planning kind of taking that multi year approach. And then for the compliance work every April 15th that we have to do, the CPA comes into our office and is meeting with a client and basically just helping them. There may be some kind of last minute deduction or credit, but really they’re just kind of more so doing the, I don’t want to call it the grunt work, but I’ll be nicer and say the compliance work.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Well most CPA firms really don’t like that kind of work. You kind of have this differentiation that’s out there. You have these kind of low end tax places that frankly I did … I guess I can speak first person about this. But early in my career when I just wanted to learn about this I went through H&R Block’s tax school. And it wasn’t really anything about tax, it was just how to learn their software. And basically you were approved to do tax returns I think in the span of about it was three months, and it was just couple hours a week. So it was very limited training, and other places are a lot less than that.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Then you go on the other side and you have these larger CPA firms, well they don’t do individual income tax planning unless you have a big business that they’re paying the CPA firm big retainer fees for. They’re not going to … even if you have a successful individual who’s making a chunk of change, it just doesn’t make sense for them to go ahead and do that work. So I think advisors, because we’re taking this longer term view and we’re looking at their cash flow in the short term, and everything in between. Frankly we’re probably better situated to go ahead and provide that advice than certainly the low end tax people, or the high priced CPA firm, or somebody that may even be in the middle of that. You really do need to have this integrated advice because with tax planning there’s just a lot of, I don’t want to call it free money, but it’s a decision that you can do and it’s going to result, as long as you go ahead and execute the planning advice properly, it’s going to result in what you expect.

Kevin Kroskey:                  We started the conversation today about the behavioral aspect of people freaking out when the market goes bad. Well you can’t predict the market. We know what the tax rates are going to be, at least with the current tax laws through 2025. And we know what current law is after that in 2026 that the rates are going to go higher. So if we can understand what our rate is today, and we understand, hey where does it make sense to save, what types of accounts does it make sense to put money in your pre-tax account, to put money in your Roth account. Or if you’re going into retirement or are already there, hey where does it make sense to pull out from? Are we going to pull it out of the IRA, or are we going to pull it out of that trust account or joint account? Maybe we’re going to do some sort of combination. Maybe we want to go ahead and do a conversion and actually pay tax today at today’s known and probably lower tax rate, move some of the money from the IRA and put it into the Roth.

Kevin Kroskey:                  I mean all these things are really both kind of a short term cash flow problem and tax problem, as well as taking a longer term view of it. So I’m kind of just touching on a few things. There’s so many more that kind of goes along with it, but I guess one of the things I wanted to share today was, we’ve been doing this on an outsource basis with a CPA for years. We’ve always been doing this proactive planning, but we recently hired a CPA and we’ve brought it in house. So it just makes sense. If it’s one of the three core things that you’re doing year in and year out for your clients, it’s not something you outsource.

Kevin Kroskey:                  So I’m happy to announce that we made a pretty substantial investment in bringing in a very qualified professional as part of the True Wealth team. And we’re going to have better control over the whole process. We’ve got a great CPA that we were working with before, and I’m still working with them on certain clients. But it’s great to have somebody in house who is completely devoted to our clients, who’s going to understand our processes, our technology, and the way that we communicate and work with clients, and be able to help them a lot more.

Walter Storholt:                Well that’s pretty neat to see that all come under one umbrella. And when you recognize that opportunity for betterment, and for improvement for clients, and people within the organization it’s nice to be able to also, not just think about it, oh that would be nice, but then to actually take the action and make it happen. So, integrated planning was already good, and now it’s getting even better it sounds like by having everything under one roof. And so congratulations to you, Kevin, for making those changes as a company, and providing that extra service to folks. I know that that’s going to be exciting down the road as it gets more and more developed over time and people start taking advantage of that opportunity.

Walter Storholt:                So it’s just really neat to see all of the different things come together. And I guess that’s why some folks when you’re building a house you can turn to a contractor who can help integrate and pull all of those different things together. They can see how the electrical, and the plumbing, and the framework of the home all need to happen one after the other, and how they all … All those different teams need to work together, versus you trying to be like, “Okay let’s just do all of these things individually and take care of it.” You want to work with somebody who can pull it all together for you. I don’t know if that’s a good comparison to the general contracting world, but it kind of seems to make sense.

Kevin Kroskey:                  I’ll give you another one. I’ll give you kind of the other side of it. Let’s think about food for a moment.

Walter Storholt:                I knew you were going to take it that direction.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Walter do you like sushi by chance?

Walter Storholt:                Love it, yes.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Okay. So if you like sushi, would you go to a hot dog place for sushi?

Walter Storholt:                A hot dog place … I’m very weary of gas station sushi, and even grocery store sushi most of the time, so probably not.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Well I’ve never seen gas station sushi, but-

Walter Storholt:                It’s a thing.

Kevin Kroskey:                  You’re not going to go, this is my attempt at humor so give me a little latitude. So I’ll use a medical one. We have several orthopedic surgeons as clients and you got a guy that works on knees then he’s only working on knees. You have somebody that’s a spine surgeon and they’re only working on spines. They’re not going, “Well today I’m going to go explore over here and I’m going to try this out.” No, you don’t do that. But it’s not like we’re going out and doing something completely different. So much of this stuff, it affects each other. It’s like a domino. I can give plenty of examples over the years where we’ve had one professional advisor being an attorney or accountant, give advice that was maybe right from their perspective, but it was the completely wrong advice for the client when you looked at it in totality.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Again, this is just something that we do each and every year. So I would say that as advisors we definitely have a big tax focus to what we do. But now we have a CPA professional on staff that takes our expertise to an even greater level. And the fact that we’re doing this work year in year out for clients, and it has such a high probability of pay off because we’re not making predictions, we’re looking at tax rates today, we’re looking at tax rates that we know that are going to be in effect for the next few years, and we’re making really smart planning decisions. The value that’s added through tax planning is very concrete, and I can tell you that it puts a smile on everybody’s face when you can show them, here’s how much we saved you in taxes because of this planning that we did.

Walter Storholt:                Well we covered a lot of ground on today’s show. If you’re listening and thinking, okay well you talked earlier on about not having that tax plan as part of my financial planning. I’ve really only ever talked investments and not the whole picture with my advisor, and you’d like to see what it’s like to get the full look at that plan. Like that person who came in and met with Kevin, who talked a little bit more about that. If you want to be like that and have that conversation with Kevin to see if you would benefit from more in depth and more comprehensive and integrated planning, you can give a call to 855-TWD-PLAN, that’s 855-893-7536. Or on-line, truewealthdesign.com, the place to go on the website, truewealthdesign.com on-line, and you can get in touch with the team that way and have a conversation about your financial plan, and your situation as well.

Walter Storholt:                Or maybe it’s you’re thinking about the very beginning of today’s podcast. We were talking about behavior and when the market goes up and down. And were you thinking of dumping all your stocks and selling out back in December of 2018, is that something that was going through your mind as we were experiencing those downsides in the market? Do you get affected emotionally during those situations? If so that might also be a little, I don’t want to call it a red flag, but a little trigger in your mind that might say, “You need some help navigating your financial plan.” Because it might mean that you’re following some of those improper ways of thinking about things, you’re not able to discern the difference between the bear and the bear market as Kevin so eloquently put it earlier on in today’s show. Well then again we invite you to call 855-TWD-PLAN, or on-line at truewealthdesign.com, if you’ve got any questions about what you hear on the podcast.

Walter Storholt:                Kevin it was a fun conversation today. I appreciate the guidance and we’ll do it again next time around.

Kevin Kroskey:                  Yeah. Appreciate it as well. I guess one other thing in closing Walter. I have a E-book that I wrote not too long ago, it’s called Taxes in Retirement, so if anybody would like a copy of that you can just go ahead and contact us through the website, and just put Taxes in Retirement, and we’ll be sure to get that out to you.

Walter Storholt:                Perfect. Yeah, truewealthdesign.com, click on contact and you can request the E-book that way. Pretty easy to do that as well. Alright Kevin, stay away from gas station sushi, that’s my take away tip from today’ podcast alright.

Kevin Kroskey:                  That’s a good one. Alright Walter.

Walter Storholt:                We’ll talk to you soon. That’s Kevin Kroskey, I’m Walter Storholt, thanks for joining us we’ll talk to you next time on Retire Smarter.

Speaker 3:                           Information provided is for informational purposes only, and does not constitute investment, tax, or legal advice. Information is obtained from sources that are deemed to be reliable, but their accurateness and completeness cannot be guaranteed. All performance reference is historical and not an indication of future results. Benchmark indices are hypothetical and do not include any investment fees.